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Mikojan-Gurjevics MiG-23 “Flogger”

Diskurzus a(z) '3. generációs típusok' témában - Galcom által indítva @ 2013. január 8..

  1. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

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    Oké, elhiszem neked, de akkor még aktuálisabb a fenti kérdés: miért nem rakták be a BN után a későbbi szériákba beépitve?
     
  2. Allesmor Obranna

    Allesmor Obranna Well-Known Member

    Mert nem fért be. A hűtését hogyan oldottad volna meg?
     
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  3. Galcom

    Galcom Well-Known Member


    Volt ilyen vadászváltozat, MiG-23MLDG vagy MLG - izlés szerint - nevezve, de szó szerint csak pár darab épült meg (négy gép ismert). A két protó után, a két előszéria gép, a szovjetúniónak utolsónak átadott két szériából került ki a gyári száma szerint. Miután tömeges gyártásba nem került, szovjet légvédelmi kiképző központban használták a kazah sivatagban:

    [​IMG]

    Hogy műszaki problémák megoldottlansága, vagy az ára miatt nem állt hadrendbe aktív alakulatnál, azt nem tudni. Végül a légvédelmi alakulatok lövészeteit tették realisztikusabbá a típussal, a nyolcvanas években.
     
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  4. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

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    Miért nem fért be? Az ML-ből kiszedtek egy komplett üzemanyagtartályt.
    Amúgy a BN-be hová fért be?
     
    gacsat likes this.
  5. Allesmor Obranna

    Allesmor Obranna Well-Known Member

    Ez önmagában semmire sem magyarázat, hogy kiszedtek egy üzemanyagtartályt. Az M/MF-ek 4-es tartálya hiányzik az ML családból, de az a törzshátsórésznél volt, annak helye egy zavarórendszer esetében nem releváns, hiába szabadult fel.
     
  6. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

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    Igen, ahogy mondod. Erre a fenti MLD-s linkem is ezt irta:
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    "Although tested on the MiG-23MLD, there were no production-converted Flogger-Ks with the built-in SPS-141 Siren or Gardenya-1FU active jammers."
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    De miután hamar kiderült, már 82-ben is, hogy az ECM zavarórendszer komplett hiánya komoly harcászati hátrány, nem értem, hogy ebben a kérdésben miért nem léptek konkrétabbat a továbbfejlesztéskor, ha amúgy láthatóan komoly erőfeszitéseket tettek más téren már az ML-lel kezdődően is, hogy a MiG-23-ből valami elfogadhatóbb versenytársat faragjanak az új F-16 ellen.
     
  7. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

    Amúgy pl az R-73 integráció ennyi volt az MLD-n:

    "The missile was introduced on the VVS-FA MiG-23MLDs as early as in 1983, and its integration was performed by only replacing three black boxes into the aircraft’s fire control system."

    De ezzel a rakéta használhatósága a 23-ason csak részleges volt:
    "To fully exploit the R-73’s high off-boresight capabilities, however, it would require a helmet-mounted cueing system (HCMS), similar to that adopted for the Indian Air Force MiG-21-93."
     
  8. Galcom

    Galcom Well-Known Member

    Akkor nézegessünk, az első üzemeltetőnél rövid karriert befutó egyiptomi

    MiG-23MSz

    [​IMG]

    MiG-23BN
    [​IMG]

    és MiG-23UB-t a hetvenes évek közepéről:
    [​IMG]

    Tom Cooper a kliencvenes évek óta állítja, hogy összesen húsz MiG-23MSz/BN/UB-t kaptott Egyiptom. Ez ellentmondond, minden más üzemletetőnél leszállított mennyiségnek és ütemezésnek, de sajnos jelenleg nincs pontosabb adat.
     
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  9. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

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    Itt egy részletes fotósorozat az MLDG-ről, ahol szegény már roncsállapotban várja a bontót:
    https://www.scalenews.de/mikojan-gurewitsch-mig-23mldg-walkaround-75/
     
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  10. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

    The development of MiG-23 was on the way to improving the design of the glider and electronics, improving the production technology. The inevitable increase in the mass of the aircraft required measures to maintain the specific wing loading. To solve this problem it was possible due to development of a new part of the wing with a larger chord. Its characteristic feature was the "dog tooth" on the leading edge, which gave the aircraft some resemblance to a bat. In 1971, a small batch of MiG-23s, which did not have a letter index, was released with new wing consoles (the so-called MiG-23 of the 1971 model). The tail of these machines was displaced back to 860 mm, and in addition, a fourth fuselage fuel tank was added. Designers had to abandon the slat, as a result, the aircraft was predisposed to stalling at takeoff and landing modes. Soon, in an unpleasant situation, the test pilot OKB V.Menitsky and the military pilot Yu.Maslov, who, fortunately, managed to successfully land the planes. However, for the test pilot LII Enna Kaarma flight on such an MiG-23 ended in disaster. However, a limited number of these aircraft entered the army.

    The next stage in the evolution of the aircraft was the MiG-23M ("23-11M"), which turned out to be the most massive fighter from the family of "twenty-third". The aircraft also had a wing with a "dog tooth" and a fourth fuselage fuel tank, but the consoles were equipped with a deflectable leading edge, actuated synchronously with the flap, which significantly increased the lifting properties of the wing on the runways. The aircraft was equipped with an engine P-29-300 (thrust 8300/11500 kgf). The radar "Sapphire-23D" was included, and which was finally brought to the stage of mass production. It was for domestic serial fighters to received a radar capable of operating on enemy aircraft flying against the background of the ground. The detection range of the standard target was 55 km, the range of target tracking was 35 km, the processing of radar information before the sight was carried out by an analog computer AVM-23. To provide the radar station with more "comfortable" working conditions, the shape of the radio-transparent radome was changed, and it became a conical oval. Under the fuselage of the MiG-23M, the TP-23 direction finder was placed behind the wedge-shaped glazing. The aircraft was equipped with the advanced automated control system SAU-23A, as well as the navigation system "Polet-1 I-23".

    The MiG-23M weaponry was significantly expanded and included: an integrated GSh-23L gun, two medium range R-23R (radar semi-active guidance system) or R-23T (IR homing), two or four short-range R-3S, R-3P or K-13M short range air to air missiles, or the newer R-60 air to air missile. For suspension of the latter, the APU-60/2, was designed for two air to air missiles, could be carried, which allowed bringing their total number on board the aircraft to six. "R-60" was created under the leadership of MR. Bisnovata and became the first rocket of this class in the world, capable of starting at an overload of a carrier up to 7G units, that is, practically at the limit of maneuverability of the aircraft. To destroy ground targets, the fighter was equipped with guided missiles X-66 and X-23R, NAR S-5, S-8 and S-24, as well as free-falling bombs, one-time bombs and napalm tanks with a mass of up to 500 kg.

    MiG-23M made the first flight in June 1972 under Fedotov. The new aircraft, like the MiG-23S, did not meet a special love among the military pilots, although many of the shortcomings of the first serial version of the "twenty-third" were eliminated in its design. The undeveloped technology for manufacturing wing consoles still imposed serious restrictions on maneuverability and G load handling. The pilots and technicians of the Air Force Research Institute, suffering from the MiG-23M, bitterly joked: "They would soon be removed from the arsenal and converted to flying targets, then we will re-take them!". However, the production of the MiG-23M was constantly gaining momentum, reaching by 1976 eight aircraft per month.

    [​IMG]
    Developer: OKB Mikoyan, Gurevich
    Country: USSR
    First flight: 1972
    Type: Frontal fighter

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    The increase in the production of the MiG-23M had a negative impact on the program for the creation of another supersonic aircraft - the Sukhoi T-4 ("100") bomber: The Tushinsky Machine Building Plant (TMZ), who built this machine, received a large order for the production of welded sections for the fuselage of MiG-23M. The Air Force command and the leadership of the MAP found the MiG-23 program to be more of a priority, and work on the "T-4" gradually ceased. Using the technology worked out on this machine, TMZ tried to master the production of sections of the MiG-23M fuselage made of titanium alloy, however such power elements cracked even stronger than steel ones, and this idea was abandoned.
     
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  11. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

    The improvement of the MiG continued. Its design was gradually brought to higher reliability, and the afterburner thrust of the engine was increased by 1500kgf to a higher yield of 12,300kgf. It should be noted that the best American serial fighter of the early 70's. F-4E "Phantom-II", being much heavier and more expensive than the Soviet machine, was inferior to the MiG-23M in maneuvering and acceleration characteristics, climb rate, maximum speed and ceiling. Together with the newest fighter of gaining superiority in the air, the MiG-21bis - in fact a new aircraft with significantly improved flying technical characteristics, the MiG-23M - provided the domestic air force with superiority over American fighter aircraft right up to the introduction of the US Air Force in the second half of the 1970s. of the newer fourth generation F-15A and F-16A fighters.

    As the main probable opponents of the MiG-23M in the 1970s, were the American fighter F-4E Phantom II (McDonnell produced 1127 aircraft of this model) and the French Mirage F-1. In combat with these formidable opponents, the MiG-23M pilot, depending on the conditions of air combat, could make full use of the positive qualities of the aircraft with variable geometry of the wing, which gave him the greatest possible superiority in maneuverability for each flight speed. So, the MiG-23M pilot could impose the combat conditions by making the wing shift to the maximum sweep and switch to a supersonic mode, in which the MiG-23M had a shorter acceleration time. The minimum sweep could be used in combat at flight speeds of less than 700-800 km / h, especially on vertical maneuvers . Almost in the entire range of altitudes at speeds of 700-1100 km / h, the MiG-23M was superior to the Mirage F-1 for maneuverability and climb rate. At speeds of over 1100 km / h at medium and high altitudes, the MiG-23M pilot was unable to match the Mirage on sustained turn handling. The existing superiority of the MiG in the rate of climbing was expediently used to transfer the battle to ascending vertical maneuvers with small overloads, which would lead to a decrease in speed and would transfer the fight to the conditions where the MiG-23 was superior to the Mirage F-1.

    While conducting an air battle with the F-4E at speeds of 800-1100 km / h at low and medium altitudes at overloads close to the maximum in thrust, the MiG-23M in a horizontal maneuver surpassed the enemy, yielding to him in a vertical maneuver. The superiority of the MiG-23M over the F-4E (the most massive Israeli air force aircraft) indirectly confirms the fact that from the second half of the 1970s, from the moment of the MiG-23's appearance in the Middle East, the Israeli Air Force stopped using Phantoms for conducting air battles. Comparing the capabilities of combat aircraft, it is very important to evaluate their aiming systems and weapons. Without exaggeration, it can be noted that the aiming system of the MiG-23M fighter was not inferior to the aiming systems of the F-4E fighter aircraft (AN / APQ-120 radar, AN / ASG-26 optical sight) and Mirage F-1 (SIRANO IV radar, optical sight CSF-196), and by some parameters significantly exceeded them. (The capabilities of the Sapphire-23D-III radar, the AN / APQ-120 and the Cyrano IV are illustrated in figure 2.) The AN / APQ-120 radar, compared to the French and Soviet radars, did not have a target detection mode on the ground, and was also less jam-resistant. The presence on the MiG-23M of the thermal direction-finder significantly expanded its combat capabilities and allowed to successfully carry out combat missions even in conditions of powerful electronic countermeasures. Detection range of the TP-23 of an F-4 from the rear hemisphere in simple weather conditions was about 20 km. The R-23R surpassed in its capabilitiess , theAIM-7B "Sparrow" and "Matra" R.530 with a radar homing, but somewhat it was inferior to what the air to air missile the F-4E received in the second half of the 1970s AIM-7F Sparrow, which, however, it was compensated by a more powerful MiG-23M sighting system. (The permissible launch zones UR R-23R, AIM-7B and AIM-7F are shown in the diagram.3.)

    It must be remembered that during the time of the mass production of the MiG-23M (1974-1976), neither F-15 nor F-16 were yet in service. The first F-15A appeared in the US Air Force only in the late 1976 (in the US Air Force in Europe - in the spring of 1977), and F-16 - only in late 1978. Of course, in terms of their flight characteristics and combat capabilities, the new American fighters outmatched the MiG-23M, but they were already planes of a newer generation. Moreover, the first serial F-16s, produced for several years, did not have medium-range missiles in their armament and could successfully fight the MiG-23M only in close combat, which was confirmed in 1982 during the battles over Lebanon . In 1982, Syrian pilots on the

    MiG-23MF (the MiG-23M export version), not even trained in the way of conducting close combat maneuvering (it began to be developed in the USSR only in 1980, after removing restrictions on the MiG-23 overload capability) successfully resisted Israeli F-15 and F-16. By the beginning of hostilities, in 1982, in the fighter squadron of the 17th Brigade Air Force of Syria (Sigal airbase) were 21 MiG-23MF aircraft. The combat load of most of the squadron fighters included two R-23R, two UR R-60 and 200 rounds for the GSh-23A gun. During six days of the Lebanon war, the pilots of the squadron flew 52 sorties on the MiG-23MF, destroying 6 Israeli planes according to Syrian data, on the other source- 9 (six F-16, two F-15 one unmanned UAV). All Israeli planes were shot down from the first attack by R-23R missiles, which confirmed the high capabilities of the Sapphire-23D-III radar. The losses of Syrians were six MiG-23MF (two pilots were killed, four safely ejected). It should be noted that the removal of the Syrian land-based radar posts from the theater of military operations excluded the detection of low-flying Israeli fighters. At the same time, Israeli ground-based radars installed on the Golan Heights and reinforced by the Hawkeye E-2 aircraft fully controlled the airspace over the entire range of heights, ensuring the effective deployment of their fighters. Taking this into account, as well as using only the newest F-15 and F-16 fighters in air battles, the use of the MiG-23MF in 1982 over Lebanon can be considered successful.

    MiG-23MF (izd.23MF, izd.2MF, variant A) is a single-seat frontal fighter with the R29-300 engine, modification of the MiG-23M with the S-23E armament system, practically not different in characteristics from the MiG-23M fighter armament system, for supplies for export to the Warsaw Treaty countries, and then Arab states. In 1977, on the basis of the MiG-23M, a MiG-23MF fighter was created, which was mainly intended for equipping the air forces of the Warsaw Pact countries. It differed from its prototype only slightly simplified avionics. For example, an export version of the command guidance system "Lazur-SMA", a radio sight "Sapphire-23E" ("E" - export), a TP-23-1 infrared search and track direction finder with slightly worse characteristics were installed on the plane. Part of the MiG-23MF was converted from the MiG-23M. Was built at the MAPO in 1974-1978. for exports to the Middle East and Africa. The first importing country of the MiG-23MF was Bulgaria, which received these fighters in 1978. It was built serially at MAPO in 1978-1983.
     
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  12. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

    Libya and other Arab countries bought from the USSR a simplified export modification of the MiG-23MS (Export) (in the NATO classification - Flogger-E). This aircraft retained the design of the basic model, but was equipped with a R-27F2M-300 engine with a thrust of 10,200 kg. It was also equipped with a less powerful radar "Sapphire-21", housed in a shortened nose cone. This radar had a range of search and tracking of 29 km and 18 km, respectively, and did not have lock down shoot down capability. Its avionics did not include infrared sensors and Doppler navigation. This modification with minor changes in equipment was supplied to the Air forces of many Arab countries. All export modifications of the aircraft were substantially inferior in terms of capacity and capabilities to the aircraft that are in service with the CIS countries.

    [​IMG]
    Considering short-range missiles with a thermal homing head, it can be noted that the AIM-9A "Sidewinder" and R-3S were similar, as well as AIM-9C, "Matra" R.550 and R-13M. The advantage of the MiG-23M consisted in equipping its UR with the very maneuverable air to air R-60 missiles. Similar missiles in 1975 were not armed with probable adversaries. The situation changed only later, with the adoption in the US of the AIM-9L with a more sensitive thermal homing head than the R-60. Assessing the cannon armament, it can be noted that compared to the American gun "Vulcan" MG1, the Soviet GSh-23L had better ballistic characteristics, a larger caliber and a larger projectile weight. However, the F-4E had a fire time of 6-7 seconds, the MiG-23M had 4 seconds, and the Mirage F-1 had more than 10 seconds, although the two French DEFA guns were slightly inferior to the GSh-23L for a second salvo. A comparison of the aiming and arming systems of the three machines shows that the capabilities of radar sights for detecting air targets, their aiming capability, were practically the same, with a slight advantage in the Soviet radar. "Sapphire-23D-III" had higher jamming immunity and superiority over the AN / APQ-120 radar in the ability for mutual detection of MiG-23M and F-4E aircraft are almost the same, at extremely small and medium altitudes. Using the IRST on the MiG-23M made it possible to carry out covert attacks in the back hemisphere of the enemy fighters. In close combat, the MiG-23M had superiority over the F-4E and the "Mirage" F.1 due to the possibility of using R-60 melee missiles, which compensated for the shortcomings of the cannon armament of the MiG-23M. From the foregoing, we can conclude that the MiG-23M in combat capabilities outperformed its contemporary Western fighters. However, it was not possible to meet these planes directly in battle. And the MiG-23M had to fight in 1982 against the Israeli F-15 and F-16 over Lebanon. Some unscrupulous analysts, purely mechanically comparing the Soviet fighter with the F-15 and F-16, make the incorrect conclusion that the MiG-23M was a bad fighter and did not meet the requirements of the time.


    [​IMG]
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    In 1973, the first export modification of the "twenty-third" had its first flight. The MiG-23MS (izd.23MS, izd.2MS, variant E) is a single-seat frontal fighter powered by the R-29-300 engine, It is a modification of the MiG-23M with the simplified weapon system "Almaz-23" (similar to the S-21M weapon system of the MiG-21bis aircraft) .

    The aircraft had simplified electronics (in particular, the Sapphire-21 radar) and weapons, which included only short-range missiles: R-13M, R-3S and R-3R. Soon this aircraft was adopted by the Air Force of Syria, Algeria, Iraq and several other countries-allies of the USSR. Several MiG-23MS were transferred to the US by the Egyptian government in the late 1970s
     
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  13. Galcom

    Galcom Well-Known Member

    Ez a kép tőlünk nem messze Munkácson készült a hetvenes évek közepén.

    Igen a MiG-23M/MF gyártása volt a leghoszabb a típus története során.
    • 1972 és 1976 között a Szovjet Frontlégierő számára szállították
    • Majd 1976 és 1978 között kapta a Szovjet Légvédelem.
    • 1978 felszabadtották a VSz számára (Egy párgépes kubai extra szállítás is belefért extraként), egészen 1982-ig.
    • Végül 1981-től már a harmadik világ is megkaphatta, India, Kuba és az arabok.
     
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  14. gacsat

    gacsat Well-Known Member

    Őrizték a "tésztagyárat".
     
  15. Capslock27

    Capslock27 Well-Known Member

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    Maga a gép vételára is bőven drágább volt, jó dupla ár a MiG-21.hez képest, és szerintem tudásban a MiG-23MF nem ért annyival többet. Plusz a 80-as évekre az egész szocialista blokk kezdett kifulladni gazdaságilag, és már elindult a rendszerváltáshoz vezető egyre gyorsuló lejtő. A Szovjetunió ekkor élte a "pangás" időszakát.
    Magyaro. is a ténylegesnél több 23-ast tervezett venni, azután ennyi lett. És amiből kevés van, annak az üzemeltetése egységre számitva mindig drágább eleve.
     
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  16. molnibalage

    molnibalage Well-Known Member

    Én úgy tudom, hogy a 21bisz hez képest hatszoros áron kaptuk va 23MF-et...
    Sejthető, hogy miért egy század volt csak belőle...
     
  17. Hpasp

    Hpasp Well-Known Member

    A VSz export árakat elég nehéz összehasonlítani, de azért bátorkodom pár adatot közzétenni:
    Egy MiG-21F-13 ára 1960-ban elvileg 3.5 millió konvertibilis Rubel volt.
    Hivatalosan is lérak elfogultként megjegyezném, hogy ugyanezen szovjet árlista szerint egy komplett SzA-75M Dvina légvédelmi komplexum ára 9.5 millió Rubel volt.

    Amíg a MIG-21MF gép darabjáért 2.5 millió Rubelt fizetett az MN, a 70-es években, a MiG-23MF ára ehhez képest 5 millió rubel körül mozgott.

    Lett viszont szemből is indítható BVR rakéta, hőpellengátor, Lazúr rávezetés telekód csatornán, dupla nuki bomba hordozásának lehetősége a 21-es-hez képest...
    ... oszt majd a mostani sorozatból elválik mennyit is ért ez a valóságban.
     
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  18. Allesmor Obranna

    Allesmor Obranna Well-Known Member

    Csak mi és a lengyelek nem vettük meg az elvárt mennyiségű 23-ast. Mi csak egy századnyit, a lengyelek meg kétszázadnyit vettek és kész. Igaz, ők Szuhoj vonalon voltak erősek. A románok más tészta, ők hamarabb kifulladtak, de 29-esre még költöttek.
    A csehek, keletnémetek és különösen a bolgárok viszont alaposan bevásároltak a típusból.
     
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  19. Hpasp

    Hpasp Well-Known Member

    Hát a 80-as évek végi sirámot, nagyjából az MN összes fegyverneme előadhadja...
    ... a nyolcvanas évek végéig ugyanis elmaradt:

    - két Grányit típusú megerősített tároló építése az MN számára tárolt taktikai nukleáris fegyverek részére
    - Oka harcászati-hadműveleti rakéták rendszerbe állítása Tapolcán
    - Tocska rakéták rendszerbe állítása Tatán
    - Sz-300PMU osztályok rendszerbe állítása Budapest körül
    - MiG-23ML rendszerbe állítása Taszáron
    - MiG-29 rendszerbe állítása Pápán
    - Szu-25 rendszerbe állítása Börgöndön
    - stb...
    :rolleyes:

    ... cserébe viszont tán jobb pénzügyi helyzetből kezdtük a 90-es éveket, de ez itt már erősen off.
     
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  20. molnibalage

    molnibalage Well-Known Member

    És 0 db Osza AKM...
    Krug csak 80-as evekben...
     

Ezen oldal megosztása