[BIZTPOL] Románia
- Téma indítója desertfox
- Indítva
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Ha nem vagy kibékülve az alapértelmezettnek beállított sötét sablonnal, akkor a korábbi ígéretnek megfelelően bármikor átválthatsz a korábbi világos színekkel dolgozó kinézetre.
Ehhez görgess a lap aljára és a baloldalon keresd a HTKA Dark feliratú gombot. Kattints rá, majd a megnyíló ablakban válaszd a HTKA Light lehetőséget. Választásod a böngésződ elmenti cookie-ba, így amikor legközelebb érkezel ezt a műveletsort nem kell megismételned. -
Az elmúlt időszak tapasztalatai alapján házirendet kapott a topic.
Ezen témában - a fórumon rendhagyó módon - az oldal üzemeltetője saját álláspontja, meggyőződése alapján nem enged bizonyos véleményeket, mivel meglátása szerint az káros a járványhelyzet enyhítését célzó törekvésekre.
Kérünk, hogy a vírus veszélyességét kétségbe vonó, oltásellenes véleményed más platformon fejtsd ki. Nálunk ennek nincs helye. Az ilyen hozzászólásokért 1 alkalommal figyelmeztetés jár, majd folytatása esetén a témáról letiltás. Arra is kérünk, hogy a fórum más témáiba ne vigyétek át, mert azért viszont már a fórum egészéről letiltás járhat hosszabb-rövidebb időre.
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Az elmúlt időszak tapasztalatai alapján frissített házirendet kapott a topic.
--- VÁLTOZÁS A MODERÁLÁSBAN ---
A források, hírek preferáltak. Azoknak, akik veszik a fáradságot és összegyűjtik ezeket a főként harcokkal, a háború jelenlegi állásával és haditechnika szempontjából érdekes híreket, (mindegy milyen oldali) forrásokkal alátámasztják és bonuszként legalább a címet egy google fordítóba berakják, azoknak ismételten köszönjük az áldozatos munkáját és további kitartást kívánunk nekik!
Ami nem a topik témájába vág vagy akár csak erősebb hangnemben is kerül megfogalmazásra, az valamilyen formában szankcionálva lesz
Minden olyan hozzászólásért ami nem hír, vagy szorosan a konfliktushoz kapcsolódó vélemény / elemzés azért instant 3 nap topic letiltás jár. Aki pedig ezzel trükközne és folytatná másik topicban annak 2 hónap fórum ban a jussa.
@comb
there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.
I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.
More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks
)
Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:
to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.
And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/
Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo
and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania?
As for naval power, there's a simple explanation, it must be there if we want to exploit the gas from Black Sea, gas that also Hungary needs a lot. There is Turkey and Russia who don't like to see the Black Sea gas exploited and sold in Europe ... gas that you need it as well.
there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.
I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.
More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks
)Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:
to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.
And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/
Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo
and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania?
As for naval power, there's a simple explanation, it must be there if we want to exploit the gas from Black Sea, gas that also Hungary needs a lot. There is Turkey and Russia who don't like to see the Black Sea gas exploited and sold in Europe ... gas that you need it as well.
@comb
there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.
I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.
More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks
Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:
to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.
And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/
Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo
and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania?
Ulippo, húzz már el.
Ez nekem új. Mióta lett angol a kommunikációs főnyelv a egy magyar fórumon 1 tag miatt? Vagy ez valami új módszer?
Hátha tudsz valamit amit én nem, téged kérdezlek mielőtt kapok egy angol nyelvű cunamit amit nincs kedvem lefordítgatni.
Hát ha a külföldivel akarsz beszélni akkor nem árt ha olyan nyelvet választasz amit megért.
Nice albanian wishfull thinking.@comb
there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.
I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.
More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks
Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:
to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.
And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/
Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo
and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania?
Do you know the true story of Romulus, Remus and Romanus?
Oké, de majdnem 1 egész oldal angol lett, és csak 1 információ hangzott el. a többi felesleges szócséplés volt. De így nehezebb átugrani a felesleges részeket, mert beleolvas az ember, nem tudja ránézésből, hogy felesleges.
I think there is aboslutely no need for any apology for this.apologies for not writing in Hungarian, but I don't understand your language, I've read the site using google translate
elnor, with respect, but Romania had betrayed her allies twice in the 20. century. The Romanian/USA friendship last until the first serious military crisis in Europe and Americans know that.
Sztem részben igen, de fals következtetéseket von. Mondjuk az olyan blődségeken lépjünk túl, hogy horthysta-revízionista külpolitika.
Ilyen nincs!Pont annak az ellentéte. Kelet-Európai összefogással akarja egyensúlyozni a Nyugati hegemóniát. Ez idáig teljesen sikeres és a V4-ből Románia nem véletlen maradt ki. Románia ilyen kelet-európai szövetségi rendszert nem tud felmutatni, csak az USA-t. Aki viszont veszélyes szövetséges lehet. Nem egyenértékű patneri viszony, inkább vazallusi szerep lehet a románoké, de lelkük rajta.
Jelentéktelen véleménykülönbségek a V4-en belül teljesen normálisak, amíg stratégiai kérdésekben nagy az összhang. Volt cseh és szlovák kormányváltás is, de a külpolitikai irányvonal töretlen maradt.
Az oké, hogy Amerika egy lengyel, román bázissal és az ukrán konfliktussal akarja lekötni az oroszokat és ellehetetleníteni az EU ( német-francia ) - orosz együttműködést. De neki nem ez a fő terep, hanem Kína. És akkor a románok hamar magukra maradhatnak. Moldovában orosz csapatok vannak. Én csak bíztatni tudom a románokat, hogy keblükre öleljék moldáv testvéreiket. Itt az érzelem felülírja az értelmet és könnyen halálos ölelés lehet.
Igen a román hadsereg légvédelem és tüzérség tekintetében előrébb jár, ez fontos volt az USA-nak. De nem tenném le a nagy esküt, hogy hamarosan itthon nem egy modernebb rendszerre írnak alá szerződést, esetleg jobb hadiipari feltételekkel.
Viszont a nehézdandár tekintetében a szovjet technikába látszanak beragadni, tehát nem olyan egyértelmű a helyzet. 2-4 év múlva itthon jelentős előrelépés lesz.
F16-al egy jelentős fáziskéséssel lépnek utánunk váltva a Mig-eket, a Fekete-tengeren mégis MIG-21-esekkel kergetik az orosz gépeket.
Amit ők most megléptek egy század használt F-16, az nálunk 2005 környékén megvolt a Gripennel, épp most készülünk továbblépni minőségben és/vagy mennyiségben. Vannak kétségeim, hogy egy második század F-16 mennyire realitás és mennyire kommunikáció román szinten. Szükségük lenne rá, az nem kérdés.
Ami tényleg frankó hozzánk képest az a Piranha. Már ha mellé még tesznek vmit, mert a Lynx egyértelműen veri minden tekintetben.
A fekete tengeri gázra abszolút nincs szükségünk, annak az esetleges felvásárlása csak geopolitikai kérdés volt, hogy csökkentsük a román pozíciókat. Viszont az nekik is kényszer, mert Ukrajna és Bulgária felé nem lesz fizetőképes kereslet.
Amiben a nagy különbséget látom az a hadiipar. Mi azzal részben anyagi fedezetét teremtjük meg a jövőbeni fejlesztéseknek, teljesen új modern alapra helyezve. Én ezt a keleti szomszédban nem látom. A másik probléma az állandó román kormányválság, így hosszú távú egységes fejlesztési stratégiára nincs esély.
Lenézni őket abszolút nem kell, egyértelmű a jelenlegi fölény, de a mennyiséget sztem modernebb technikával tudjuk ellensúlyozni és a gazdasági alapjaink is stabilabbak. Ezért is megyünk a német vonalon. ilyen gazdasági direkt / indirekt ellentételezésekre az USA oldaláról nincs lehetőség.
A térségi folyamatokba közép távon az EU kívül az oroszoknak és a törököknek nagyobb befolyása lesz, mint Amerikának. Ott komoly köldöknézés jön és a hangsúly a Csendes óceán, Kína.
Igen, de egyelőre ők ugyanarra a feladatra fogják használni, mint mi. Láncos IFV nincs Mordorban beszerzés alatt. Ezért is írtam, amellé kellene nekik még vmi. Lesz sok használt Bradley.
Abban a pillanatban, amikor românok üzemeltetnek egy technikát, annak harci ertéke jelentösen csökken, szerintem.
Nem ugyanarra használják. Ott vannak a nehezebb fegyverzetű alegységeiknél az MLI-vel felszerelt zászlóaljak (2). Ez egy APC, annak is vették a SAUR-ok meg BTR-ek helyett.Igen, de egyelőre ők ugyanarra a feladatra fogják használni, mint mi. Láncos IFV nincs Mordorban beszerzés alatt. Ezért is írtam, amellé kellene nekik még vmi. Lesz sok használt Bradley.