[BIZTPOL] Románia

[SilvioD]

Nem ugyanarra használják. Ott vannak a nehezebb fegyverzetű alegységeiknél az MLI-vel felszerelt zászlóaljak (2). Ez egy APC, annak is vették a SAUR-ok meg BTR-ek helyett.

Még meddig??? Ugyanaz a sztori mint a TR-85. Régi szovjet technika tuningolva. Én erre nem építenék közép távon.

 

[krisss]

Még meddig??? Ugyanaz a sztori mint a TR-85. Régi szovjet technika tuningolva. Én erre nem építenék közép távon.

Még egy darabig biztosan, de ne hidd, hogy nem lesz válasz a részükről, az erőviszonyokat elemi érdekük fenntartani és az ő lakosságuk sokkal fogékonyabb a velünk és az oroszokkal való riogatásra arról nem is beszélve, hogy még bőven van hová eladósodniuk. Ha komolyan fenyegetve érzik magukat simán bele tudnak állni egy fegyverkezési versenybe még jó ideig. Szerencsénk ezen a téren a folyamatos politikai instabilitás náluk.

 

[Nemerson]

@comb

there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.

I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.

More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks )

Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:

to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.

And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/

Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo

and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania? As for naval power, there's a simple explanation, it must be there if we want to exploit the gas from Black Sea, gas that also Hungary needs a lot. There is Turkey and Russia who don't like to see the Black Sea gas exploited and sold in Europe ... gas that you need it as well.

Mi még csak az elején tartunk a haderőreformunknak de mi is be fogunk szerezni MLRS rendszereket. Amivel te nagyon nem számolsz az a székelység Erdélyben ami egy háború esetén Magyarország és Románia között egy több tízezres felkelő partizánsereggé formálódik, akiket mi ellátunk fegyverekkel és utánpótlással, antitank rakétákkal, légvédelmi rakétákkal és minden más földi jóval. Természetesen más szövetségeseket is kell keresnünk Románia ellen, szóba jöhet Bulgária. Az elnökválasztás még nincs lefutva az USA-ban, Trump a bírósághoz fordul a választási csalások miatt.

 

[SilvioD]

Sztem háborúra magyar-román viszonylatban nincs esély és nagyon káros lenne. Nekünk mindenképpen halálos. Hamar elszigetelődnénk újra. Amire viszont reális esély van az egy orosz - román konfliktus Moldova kapcsán. A 90-es évek elején ott dörögtek a fegyverek és a mai napig ketté van szakítva az ország. Az egy a Kaukázushoz hasonlóan befagyott konfliktus. Az USA egyre jobban fokozza a nyomást az oroszokon, ez az elnökváltással most felerősödik. Van esély rá, hogy a második Ukrajna Moldovában vagy Fehéroroszországban alakul ki. Ez bedöntené a román gazdaságot és akkor süt be a Kárpátok bércei közt a nap.

 

[LMzek 2.0]

Még meddig??? Ugyanaz a sztori mint a TR-85. Régi szovjet technika tuningolva. Én erre nem építenék közép távon.

2-4 ATGM-el "díszítve" kerülendő bármilyen vas, még ez is. A Toyota Hilux-is ha van rajta (kis túlzással).
...és van nekik ilyen ATGM pár-ezer. Bármilyen hulladékra felrakva is műxik, sajnos.
Ekkora mennyiséget csak minőséggel --és nagyon kevéssel-- nem lehet ellensúlyozni.

 

[L.O.B]

2-4 ATGM-el "díszítve" kerülendő bármilyen vas, még ez is. A Toyota Hilux-is ha van rajta (kis túlzással).
...és van nekik ilyen ATGM pár-ezer. Bármilyen hulladékra felrakva is műxik, sajnos.
Ekkora mennyiséget csak minőséggel --és nagyon kevéssel-- nem lehet ellensúlyozni.

Alkatrészeket honnan szereznek ezekhez? Mert ha ezeket is úgy tartják életbe hogy kanibalizálják a gép/roncs parkjuk egy részét akkor nem tartanak ki sokáig a román maintanance mellett. Ha jó az információ akkor 99 MLI-84-et fejlesztettek fel M szintre...az eredeti 170-180 helyett és eből még minusz a speciális M verzó(parancsnoki,ARV,sebesült szállító) ..

 

[krisss]

Alkatrészeket honnan szereznek ezekhez? Mert ha ezeket is úgy tartják életbe hogy kanibalizálják a gép/roncs parkjuk egy részét akkor nem tartanak ki sokáig a román maintanance mellett. Ha jó az információ akkor 99 MLI-84-et fejlesztettek fel M szintre...az eredeti 170-180 helyett és eből még minusz a speciális M verzó(parancsnoki,ARV,sebesült szállító) ..

Az 2 tele zászlóalj, tokkal vonóval.

 

[LMzek 2.0]

"Össze-nyalnak" még párszáz Bradley-tm mire nekünk is hadrendbe állnak az új vasak, és marad az erőegyensúly a régi, csak elment pár milliárd.
"Szokásos" költéssel, hadsereg-építéssel csak szaladunk a környezők után, Iszonyú pénzért.

IZRAEL: saját fejlesztés/gyártás, STRATÉGIA ! ! !
Nem kell mindent, de abból ami ütős, újszerű, sokféleképpen/rugalmasan alkalmazható...
Ezek ellen nehéz => drága védekezni.
Belerokkannak ( €, $, ... ) . Nekünk az pont jóóóó!

Ezért próbáljuk nyilvánvalóvá tenni, hogy pl a Leo minőség mellé ha odakerül egy csapat-tagnak átépített 72 mennyiségnek, azzal nem tud mit kezdeni.
Ha hasonlóan a Griffek mellé (jó-)pár drón, olyan mintha 50-es nagyságrendű légierőnk lenne. Csalikkal kombinálva ezzel se tud mit kezdeni.
Még ha talál szövetségest, akkor sem! Úgy is több-esélyes => kockázatos lenne egy katonai kaland!

 

[sisimoto]

@comb

there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania. Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field. It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.

I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.

More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks )

Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:

to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.

And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/

Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo

and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government. And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania? As for naval power, there's a simple explanation, it must be there if we want to exploit the gas from Black Sea, gas that also Hungary needs a lot. There is Turkey and Russia who don't like to see the Black Sea gas exploited and sold in Europe ... gas that you need it as well.

Some thing to read in vlach language:

http://indigolotos.info/474/statul-romania-din-punct-de-vedere-juridic-nu-exista.htm#more-474

Lucian Boia’s book about the romanian historic falsifications, and pathetic lies

https://ceupress.com/book/history-and-myth-romanian-consciousness


Utálom amikor egy “bozgor vlah” előszeretettel fenyegetőzik és azt hiszi, hogy még mindig a 19./20.-ik században él! A románságnak több szerencséje volt mint esze, és ez tény. De a szerencse forgandó, és eljön a magyarok ideje! Kérdés, hogy kihasználjuk e?
A románok a Magyarság ellensége! Ez tény, és nincs értelme tagadni.
Illetve trianonnal ez véglegessé vált, és feloldhatatlaná tették az etnikai tisztogatásokkal!
Egy magyar fórumról nem kellene az ilyen roma.n szószólót kihajítani?

 

[antigonosz]

Legalabb tudjuk hogy mordorba is megerkezett az internet.

 

[SilvioD]

Some thing to read in vlach language:

http://indigolotos.info/474/statul-romania-din-punct-de-vedere-juridic-nu-exista.htm#more-474

Lucian Boia’s book about the romanian historic falsifications, and pathetic lies

https://ceupress.com/book/history-and-myth-romanian-consciousness


Utálom amikor egy “bozgor vlah” előszeretettel fenyegetőzik és azt hiszi, hogy még mindig a 19./20.-ik században él! A románságnak több szerencséje volt mint esze, és ez tény. De a szerencse forgandó, és eljön a magyarok ideje! Kérdés, hogy kihasználjuk e?
A románok a Magyarság ellensége! Ez tény, és nincs értelme tagadni.
Illetve trianonnal ez véglegessé vált, és feloldhatatlaná tették az etnikai tisztogatásokkal!
Egy magyar fórumról nem kellene az ilyen roma.n szószólót kihajítani?

Ezekre a kis ugratásokra nem kell felülni.
Engem egyébként érdekel a külföldiek véleménye egy-egy beszerzés, vagy geopolitikai stratégia kapcsán.

Több románnal dolgozok, dolgoztam együtt, idáig mindről kiderült, hogy vmilyen szinten tud magyarul.
Őszintén sokszor szívesebben dolgozok velük, mint a nyugatiakkal, valahogy még velük is jobban megtalálom az összhangot a minkában.

Több román fórumot olvasva, elismerik az utóbbi idő beszerzéseit, de lenézik a magyar hadsereget. Teljes erővel keletre kacsingatnak.
Tudják, hogy stratégiai szempontból ők és Lengyelország fontosak az Ameriakaiknak az oroszok ellen, csak azt nem látják, hogy ebben még könnyen beletörhet a foguk.
Sztem hagyjuk had cselekedjék meg, amit meg szeretnének, mi meg haladjunka saját útunkon, aztán majd az idő meghozza a lehetőségeket.

 

[kamm]

@comb

there are two countries which are key for US in Eastern Europe, Poland and Romania.

You can bet that along with Poland the Baltics are way more important than Romania, they are right on the Russian border. And no, for America the EU-Russian relations are not the most important thing, we just want to make sure we can sell our excess energy supplies in Europe, for two reasons: 1. it makes money 2. it undercuts the Russians (both financially and politically.)

Greece is also becoming interesting for US after Erdogan's pirouettes in politics. Weapons acquired by Romania are really good and are good deterrence even for Russians and Hungary (which is supposed to be an ally, remember?) does not have similar systems. 2 Patriots batteries out of 7 can pretty much close the Western border and Himars/Larom can out range anything you can field.

Fuck Greece and fuck Turkey, to put it mildly - the last thing we want is mired in another overseas mess we have nothing to do with.
Turkey's slide into authoritarianism obviously not a good thing but we had a lot of caudillos with a lot more awful track record around here, and we stood by them for decades (Stroessner, Pinochet, Somoza, Videla, Fujimori just to quickly name a few.) As long as Erdogan stays within the NATO we will deal with him and won't cut the cord. As I wrote earlier, Romania's stock is going up as Turkey gets more screwed up but Romania can never replace Turkey in our American calculations - you are far too small and broke for that, sorry.

Romanian enthusiasm for Patriot is cute but it's really nonsensical. What on Earth is "closing border" with Patriots? That's just downright clueless nonsense, sorry.
It's a specialized missile defense system, nothing more. You don't close a ground-level border with an ABM system. Also, FYI the last thing anyone is afraid of in Europe is Russian ballistic missiles raining down on them - you should really stop drinking the the Kool-Aid our guys at the Pentagon are keep mixing for you.
Same thing for HIMARS: it's an MLRS, nothing more... what are you going to "outrange" (sic!) when a heavy Russian division (T-72/T-90) are rolling across the Focsani Gate from Ukrainian territory and turn West to Bucuresti...? You can cause damage but sure as hell you won't stop them without hundreds of tanks and ATGM forces.

It would require about 1/3 of Romanian Army to keep the Western border secure, without moving any units from Eastern border unless we'd want to visit Budapest again, which is highly unlikely and undesired, especially if Orban Viktor meets his political end soon and his revisionist-horthyst politics are stopped.
I mean, maybe in 10 years Hungarian Armed Forces would be a strong foe. Even if you signed those deals with Lynx/Leopards, it would take at least 5 years to acquire them and lot more to actually train an army. Mind, in last 15 years almost all Romanian battalions were rotated in Iraq and Afghanistan which means much better direct warzone experience than an army who was simply overlooked by its government in last 30 years (like Hungarian army). Meanwhile, Romania is already making operational its newly acquired equipment so even if the equipment was neglected for 30 years, same as Hungary, they're some steps ahead and it's no coincidence that first gear acquired is one that Hungary does not have means to retaliate (Himars+Patriot). And there is more to come of course like a second F-16 squadron (now we can upgrade them locally), V/SHORAD systems (probably NASAMS or MICA), arty, drones etc., this was just the beginning of the program to modernized Romanian Armed Forces.

Pleahhhse.
We all know your tanks and IFVs fallen into disrepair long time ago and aside of your recent purchases your equipment is generally in a sorry-ass condition. You have a total of what, 200-250 T-84s and another 100-150 BMP-1s, and couple hundred outdated, 50+ years old APCs, a fraction of them with ATGM?
As far as I know pretty much that's your somewhat operational heavy inventory (and your new Piranhas are just started to arrive and there are only a few dozen of them.)
Now I'd wager my paycheck that less than a third of them are actually in deployable condition, probably about 80-100 tanks total and I am not sure if all would be even up to basic NATO standards (forget having even a remote chance against modern German or Russian tanks.) So you are saying one-third of it should be enough to secure your entire Western border, like 30x T84M1? Well, fine by me or the Hungarians...

My approach would been different: buy naval assets instead of the Patriots, modern tanks and IFVs and try to get on better terms with your Western and Southern neighbors (you can still buy AMRAAMS and more F16s if you are really into kissing our asses in DC.)

You can rotate as many battalions as you want but if you completely lack the logistics and the entire system behind them you were relying on in Iraq and Afghanistan, provided mostly by our army (US Army) and our contractors, you will never be able to perform the same way and the experience quickly disappears.

 

[kamm]

More, the relationship of Romania with US is strengthening in economical sector as well, see US Govt Eximbank loans for nuke plan (8+ billions) and infrastructure (7+ billions) with very small interest, around 1.48 ( Romania have better interest compared with Hungary's Russian loan for Paks )

"Nuke plan" - WTH is that? Are you designing a new type of nuclear bomb...?
Man, that's what I'm keep telling you: we will keep making money, as long as possible.
(FYI Hungarians have a different situation, I am not sure why would you even bring it up here: they have an existing Russian-built nuclear plant and Russians know it inside-out and pushed a package deal. Sure, there must be some serious corruption involved but that'd quite rich if a Romanian would try to lecture anyone about corruption.)

Friedman put it diplomatically in some of his interviews that interwar policies Orban's try to replicate aren't well suited or received by everybody else, here's a reminder:

Well, no offense but your broken English makes me think your interpretation is a bit different from Gyuri Friedman's point (yes, he's Hungarian by birth), not to mention he's pretty far from being an authority on foreign policy (his books and articles are entertaining but have some famously far-fetched ideas.)

to translate for you his diplomatic language, what you do 1000 yrs ago is irrelevant and there's no border on Carpathians anymore.

Err, let me translate you how an 1100+ years old country tend to think: history is long and they were there before and they are there for the long run. Romania is barely 150 years old and those borders only moved from the Carpathians a 100 years ago - a blink compared to 1100 years.
We do not know what the next 50-100 years bring but if Hungarians are trying to be prepared for every possibility that's a smart thing to do, only a complete fool would call it irrelevant.

And there are also Euros who are uneasy with Orban's choices:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...echanism-aims-to-protect-eu-budget-and-values
https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...sale-rule-of-law-eu-budget-and-recovery-plan/

Not even V4 partners are content with what happens in Hungary:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...mo4kVdaSdnVK3phPSw2MEKdf74wA4Pt2owEaBP4EDajNo

and now Trump is gone and he wasn't really a friend of Hungary but anyway much more willing to overlook excess of Orban's government.

Sure. Even our American pols under Trump were uneasy. Your point is...?

 

[kamm]

And in this environment you're planning to attack Transylvania? As for naval power, there's a simple explanation, it must be there if we want to exploit the gas from Black Sea, gas that also Hungary needs a lot. There is Turkey and Russia who don't like to see the Black Sea gas exploited and sold in Europe ... gas that you need it as well.

I don't know what kind of attack you are talking about, seriously - but it speaks volumes about your century-old guilt that you are still preoccupied with this idea.

The point you Romanians seem to be missing for some reason - perhaps due to your short history, perhaps due your "practical" approach (=quisling-style) to alliances - that the past 70 years is the longest peaceful period in European history.
We don't know how long it's going to last but if history tells us anything we know Central Europe was always a tinderbox. Looking at Ukraine today it's clear we are not too far from another backyard fire breaking out in the 'hood unless it will be brought up to Western standards quickly (which nobody seems to want to foot the bill for, at least right now.)
If things go haywire, say, fifteen years from now and NATO won't or cannot engage from Western Europe and we will be busy with trying to unf*ck our lives here in America then you will badly need your neighbors, at least to be friendly, when the Russian Bear will simply take your coastline away. As far as I can tell there is not a single one you can call your "friends" as of today. (Well, little wonder after you basically built your country by grabbing lands from everyone in the post-WWI chaos - older ones like Bulgaria and Hungary won't forget it anytime soon.)
When there's rioting and looting in your 'hood and your neighbors don't like you and suddenly a big bad group takes half of your backyard, don't be surprised if the neighbors will wait until you collapse and they get your front yard - really their old backyard, back (again.)

It's history, you should really study it. It's about Mitteleuropa, a concept predates Romania (about twice as old as your existence.)
In modern terms this means if anything happens to the EU the entire V4+Austria+Slovenia (and likely Croatia as well) will immediately enter an agreement with Germany to keep everything the same, according to existing EU rules - it only makes sense, to keep the economies traveling along with the German locomotive.

Say whatever you want about Orban but he's a very shrewd guy and he's very clear-eyed about Mitteleuropa and history. He's very consciously building his German and V4 relations and linking the economies with ever-closer ties. There are results already: I don't think anyone in CZ or SL would fear an "attack" from Hungary anytime soon and if any upheaval happens in the region they will have their existing relationship to rely on, that makes all the difference when things happen quickly, they can act in unison.
FYI Orban is very active in the Western Balkan too, for the same reason, to expand Hungary's economic reach, to be on good terms with everyone there - and to bring in LNG. They don't really need your gas, in fact, they bought an entire port in Trieste and just recently, I think, they have contracted an LNG terminal in Croatia. Hungary keeps schmoozing with Slovenia, hoping for an eventual port deal there too...
Orban an his folks know what they are doing, it's all about the long run, as I said (even if he and his ilks clearly make themselves filthy rich along the way.)

 

[exsorkatona]

Ez bedöntené a román gazdaságot és akkor süt be a Kárpátok bércei közt a nap.

Ha ez bekövetkezne, akkor mit tenne a magyar kormány? Megkérjük USA-t, hogy adják már vissza Erdélyt + Kárpátalját?

 

[leplezo]

Ha ez bekövetkezne, akkor mit tenne a magyar kormány? Megkérjük USA-t, hogy adják már vissza Erdélyt + Kárpátalját?

Iszonyatos mennyiségű "ha", és rengeteg feltételnek kell teljesülnie, de a legtöbbet így lehetne kihozni a dolgokból:

Amint a román államapparátus szétesik, helyi kiskirályok veszik át a helyét, meg irtózatos szegénység. Ekkor jönne el az idő, hogy a segítségünkkel (Na meg békefenntartói státusszal) stabilizálni lehetne Erdélyt. Azután jönne az a hosszú időszak ami során konszolidálódik a helyzet, és kialakulnak az új gazdasági, politikai vonalak, és ha ügyesen sakkozunk az erdélyi románok fogják megszavazni a függetlenségüket. Így létrejöhetne egy új független ország a keleti szomszédunkban. (Ami immáron sokkal barátibb.)
Az ez után jövő időszak döntené, el, hogy milyen kapcsolatban lennénk egymással. (De azért hogy mondjuk, hogy egy unió legyen közöttünk hatalmas meló lenne).

 

[Király Fika]

Iszonyatos mennyiségű "ha", és rengeteg feltételnek kell teljesülnie, de a legtöbbet így lehetne kihozni a dolgokból:

Amint a román államapparátus szétesik, helyi kiskirályok veszik át a helyét, meg irtózatos szegénység. Ekkor jönne el az idő, hogy a segítségünkkel (Na meg békefenntartói státusszal) stabilizálni lehetne Erdélyt. Azután jönne az a hosszú időszak ami során konszolidálódik a helyzet, és kialakulnak az új gazdasági, politikai vonalak, és ha ügyesen sakkozunk az erdélyi románok fogják megszavazni a függetlenségüket. Így létrejöhetne egy új független ország a keleti szomszédunkban. (Ami immáron sokkal barátibb.)
Az ez után jövő időszak döntené, el, hogy milyen kapcsolatban lennénk egymással. (De azért hogy mondjuk, hogy egy unió legyen közöttünk hatalmas meló lenne).

Ne álmodozz.

 

[leplezo]

Ne álmodozz.

Az első mondatot nem sikerült elolvasni?
Most komolyan milyen álmodozásról beszélsz? Eléggé kinyilvánítottam, hogy kicsi az esélye. Vagy most mi a bajod? Kérdésre válaszoltam, ráadásul nem is neked.
Leírtam abból mit lehetne maximum kihozni.
Vagy jobban tettszene a minimum a román határ a tiszánál?

 

[SilvioD]

[

Ha ez bekövetkezne, akkor mit tenne a magyar kormány? Megkérjük USA-t, hogy adják már vissza Erdélyt + Kárpátalját?

Sztem először ezen legyünk túl aztán meglátjuk. De ilyen, hogy megkérjük vmire az USA-t nincs. Ha vmi vki akar, azt maga intézi. Max. vannak támogatói.

 

[ibanez de bobadilla]

Legalabb tudjuk hogy mordorba is megerkezett az internet.

...de már ellopták...