KF51 Panther MBT (Rheinmetall)

[tarzaan]

"Nem igazán mászkál olyan dolog a harcmezøkön amit a 1200 mm L55A1 nem szed ki"
Ja ha a Leókon 1200 mm-es lesz, az úgy már elégséges tűzerő
De egyébként a nagyobb távolság miatt sem érné meg a 130-as? Ugyanazt kiszedi, de messzebbről?

A 130mm azért lenne jó, mert ezzel szinte biztos, hogy az ágyú a tank életciklusának végéig elég erős lesz.

A 130mm emellett pont akkora, mint a Spike (a 140mm meg akkora, mint az MMP)

 

[krisss]

Miről? Odairtam, hogy publikus dolgokról beszélek... most te adod az orakulumot?

Hiába röhögsz az ausztrál tesztekre ígért spike integràció csak másfél évet csúszott. Most lett meg 2 hete.

 

[Terminator]

Egy horvát összefoglaló a KF51-ről

 

[Pogány]

Egy horvát összefoglaló a KF51-ről

Csak az előnyökre illetve előnyök illúziójára koncentrál, nem említi semmi esetben, hogy mit, mi más helyett lehet belerakni. Ez szimpla marketing.

 

[Aladeen]

Papperger a KF51-ről:

"If you go to the next page, you see the picture of the KF51, our Panther that we
presented the first time at the Eurosatory. Some information for you about that:
what is the reason that Rheinmetall made it? First of all, it's a very long time that
we need for the main ground combat system, and if the main ground combat
system will be implemented between ‘35 to ‘40 or maybe later than ‘40, we think
there is an in-between period where Europe needs more new main battle tanks.

So we created a main battle tank which is a very high effective weapon, so we
integrated the 130mm Future Gun System, which is at the moment only available
for Rheinmetall. We have an excellent protection, so this is side protection and
this is top attack protection, and we have really a survival concept which
implements 360 degrees active, could be reactive and also passive protection. It is
fully digitized, and the digitization helps us a lot for the connectivity between tank
to tank, between main battle tank to other tanks and also between the soldiers
and the tank, which at the moment brings our soldiers home safely, which is the
most important thing.
So what is the potential over the next years of this main battle tank? And I think
we could be successful in some countries, and we offer this to all users in Europe
at the moment two weeks ago, and there is a potential of minimum some 100, but
maybe over the next ten years a potential of about 1,000 main battle tanks. This is
the need where we want to go into competition with our other competitors."

I can only tell you at the moment the feedback that I get from the market side. The
feedback from the market side is a very positive one. They said, okay, wow, it’s
great to have all these technologies inside. And the other thing is about the
pricing, and they said on the pricing side, this Panther with all the features that we
have should not be more expensive than at the moment the Leopard 2A7. It
should have a lower price than that.
How is it possible? It is possible with other technologies, with other sub-deliverers,
where we have insight there for the main components. We are really able to
reduce the costs a lot.

So now coming to the competition side, there is competition, as you know. There
is a competition from South Korea. They act via price. The price is much lower than
the Leopard. If you go to Leopard 2A7 at the moment there is a range between
EUR18m and EUR20m per piece, which is a high price in comparison to the Korean
side. So this is from our strategic side point number one. We say, okay, we have to
lower the prices, and this is what we want.
Is there a point that we have to reach exactly the price of the Koreans’? No. We
can be a little bit higher, but not as much as it is at the moment."

 

[Giskard]

Papperger a KF51-ről:

"If you go to the next page, you see the picture of the KF51, our Panther that we
presented the first time at the Eurosatory. Some information for you about that:
what is the reason that Rheinmetall made it? First of all, it's a very long time that
we need for the main ground combat system, and if the main ground combat
system will be implemented between ‘35 to ‘40 or maybe later than ‘40, we think
there is an in-between period where Europe needs more new main battle tanks.

So we created a main battle tank which is a very high effective weapon, so we
integrated the 130mm Future Gun System, which is at the moment only available
for Rheinmetall. We have an excellent protection, so this is side protection and
this is top attack protection, and we have really a survival concept which
implements 360 degrees active, could be reactive and also passive protection. It is
fully digitized, and the digitization helps us a lot for the connectivity between tank
to tank, between main battle tank to other tanks and also between the soldiers
and the tank, which at the moment brings our soldiers home safely, which is the
most important thing.
So what is the potential over the next years of this main battle tank? And I think
we could be successful in some countries, and we offer this to all users in Europe
at the moment two weeks ago, and there is a potential of minimum some 100, but
maybe over the next ten years a potential of about 1,000 main battle tanks. This is
the need where we want to go into competition with our other competitors."

I can only tell you at the moment the feedback that I get from the market side. The
feedback from the market side is a very positive one. They said, okay, wow, it’s
great to have all these technologies inside. And the other thing is about the
pricing, and they said on the pricing side, this Panther with all the features that we
have should not be more expensive than at the moment the Leopard 2A7. It
should have a lower price than that.
How is it possible? It is possible with other technologies, with other sub-deliverers,
where we have insight there for the main components. We are really able to
reduce the costs a lot.

So now coming to the competition side, there is competition, as you know. There
is a competition from South Korea. They act via price. The price is much lower than
the Leopard. If you go to Leopard 2A7 at the moment there is a range between
EUR18m and EUR20m per piece, which is a high price in comparison to the Korean
side. So this is from our strategic side point number one. We say, okay, we have to
lower the prices, and this is what we want.
Is there a point that we have to reach exactly the price of the Koreans’? No. We
can be a little bit higher, but not as much as it is at the moment."

Akkor a 120 lynx gombokért lesz, azt nyomáthajtjuk Zalában orrvérzésig.

 

[Aladeen]

Akkor a 120 lynx gombokért lesz, azt nyomáthajtjuk Zalában orrvérzésig.

120 Lynx vagy Lynx 120 ?

Az új infók szerint a logisztikai csomaggal együtt a Lynx darab ára is 14M euró, szóva. ehhez mérve a 15-20milliós Leopard 2A7 nem is drága annyira. A Lynx 120 könnyű harckocsi sem lenne sokkal olcsóbb mint az Leo2A7-es...

 

[krisss]

Papperger a KF51-ről:

"If you go to the next page, you see the picture of the KF51, our Panther that we
presented the first time at the Eurosatory. Some information for you about that:
what is the reason that Rheinmetall made it? First of all, it's a very long time that
we need for the main ground combat system, and if the main ground combat
system will be implemented between ‘35 to ‘40 or maybe later than ‘40, we think
there is an in-between period where Europe needs more new main battle tanks.

So we created a main battle tank which is a very high effective weapon, so we
integrated the 130mm Future Gun System, which is at the moment only available
for Rheinmetall. We have an excellent protection, so this is side protection and
this is top attack protection, and we have really a survival concept which
implements 360 degrees active, could be reactive and also passive protection. It is
fully digitized, and the digitization helps us a lot for the connectivity between tank
to tank, between main battle tank to other tanks and also between the soldiers
and the tank, which at the moment brings our soldiers home safely, which is the
most important thing.
So what is the potential over the next years of this main battle tank? And I think
we could be successful in some countries, and we offer this to all users in Europe
at the moment two weeks ago, and there is a potential of minimum some 100, but
maybe over the next ten years a potential of about 1,000 main battle tanks. This is
the need where we want to go into competition with our other competitors."

I can only tell you at the moment the feedback that I get from the market side. The
feedback from the market side is a very positive one. They said, okay, wow, it’s
great to have all these technologies inside. And the other thing is about the
pricing, and they said on the pricing side, this Panther with all the features that we
have should not be more expensive than at the moment the Leopard 2A7. It
should have a lower price than that.
How is it possible? It is possible with other technologies, with other sub-deliverers,
where we have insight there for the main components. We are really able to
reduce the costs a lot.

So now coming to the competition side, there is competition, as you know. There
is a competition from South Korea. They act via price. The price is much lower than
the Leopard. If you go to Leopard 2A7 at the moment there is a range between
EUR18m and EUR20m per piece, which is a high price in comparison to the Korean
side. So this is from our strategic side point number one. We say, okay, we have to
lower the prices, and this is what we want.
Is there a point that we have to reach exactly the price of the Koreans’? No. We
can be a little bit higher, but not as much as it is at the moment."

Őszintén szólva esélytelennek tartom, hogy olcsóbb legyen mint egy leopard, de konkrétan 0 esélyt látok rá.

 

[pöcshuszár]

Őszintén szólva esélytelennek tartom, hogy olcsóbb legyen mint egy leopard, de konkrétan 0 esélyt látok rá.

Az, hogy gyakorlatilag házon belül oldanák meg a gép 90%-át, az azért hatalmas előny. No nem a Leo 2 alvázas verzióról beszélek, hanem az echte RM verzióra. Ha agresszív piacszerzési stratégiát akarnak folytatni (a RM mostanában erre eléggé ráfeküdt), akkor simán 10-15%-kal is alá mehetnek a KMW-nek.
Ez pedig már ekkora tétekben igen komoly méretü cseresznye.
Ráadásul, mivel a BW nem szeret egyszerre minden felmerülő igényét berendelni, így egy elnyert, és második lot megrendelést ig3nylő helyzetben szépen vissza lehet emelni az árakat...

 

[kamm]

I can only tell you at the moment the feedback that I get from the market side. The
feedback from the market side is a very positive one. They said, okay, wow, it’s
great to have all these technologies inside. And the other thing is about the
pricing, and they said on the pricing side, this Panther with all the features that we
have should not be more expensive than at the moment the Leopard 2A7. It
should have a lower price than that.
How is it possible? It is possible with other technologies, with other sub-deliverers,
where we have insight there for the main components. We are really able to
reduce the costs a lot.

So now coming to the competition side, there is competition, as you know. There
is a competition from South Korea. They act via price. The price is much lower than
the Leopard. If you go to Leopard 2A7 at the moment there is a range between
EUR18m and EUR20m per piece, which is a high price in comparison to the Korean
side. So this is from our strategic side point number one. We say, okay, we have to
lower the prices, and this is what we want.
Is there a point that we have to reach exactly the price of the Koreans’? No. We
can be a little bit higher, but not as much as it is at the moment."

@krisss ennek alapjan azert eros aresesre epitett piacszerzes varhato - hova tenned egy 50-es rendelesnel ezt az uj, alacsonyabb arat?

En a fentiek alapjan €15M kore teszem per Panther, azaz mar a KF51 arat (a sajat tracked hullal), plusz kaphatsz valamifele beszallitast avagy osszeszerelest is.

 

[kamm]

Milyen csend lett itt hirtelen...

Az, hogy gyakorlatilag házon belül oldanák meg a gép 90%-át, az azért hatalmas előny. No nem a Leo 2 alvázas verzióról beszélek, hanem az echte RM verzióra. Ha agresszív piacszerzési stratégiát akarnak folytatni (a RM mostanában erre eléggé ráfeküdt), akkor simán 10-15%-kal is alá mehetnek a KMW-nek.
Ez pedig már ekkora tétekben igen komoly méretü cseresznye.
Ráadásul, mivel a BW nem szeret egyszerre minden felmerülő igényét berendelni, így egy elnyert, és második lot megrendelést ig3nylő helyzetben szépen vissza lehet emelni az árakat...

Pont ez latszik a fenti Papperger nyilatkozatbol, hogy a 2A7 ala viszik be kicsivel, viszont annal fejlettebb rendszert kinalnak majd. A kerdes, hogy milyen lesz az a hull alatta, a sajat tervezesu...

 

[kamm]

Az öreg papi sokmindent mondott ami csak nem úgy lett. Nem tudok hinni neki.

Hat, pedig most egeszen neven nevezte a gyereket. Olcsobb legyen, mint a 2A7, de nem annyira, mint a K2; kozelebb lesz a 2A7-hez kozottuk.
Igy viszont mar egyaltalan nem ostobasag, mert ~90 KF51 megallna €1.4B korul (kb ugyanannyi most dollarban is.) Azzal mar lehetne 1 kifejezetten pancelos dd (KF51, KF41), 1 std nehezdd (2A7HU, KF41) es masik ket vegyes felvagott dd, kozepes es egy rapid response. Az mar legalabb egy atlagos bekeidos ~130 koruli hk mennyiseget kiadna.

 

[krisss]

Hat, pedig most egeszen neven nevezte a gyereket. Olcsobb legyen, mint a 2A7, de nem annyira, mint a K2; kozelebb lesz a 2A7-hez kozottuk.
Igy viszont mar egyaltalan nem ostobasag, mert ~90 KF51 megallna €1.4B korul (kb ugyanannyi most dollarban is.) Azzal mar lehetne 1 kifejezetten pancelos dd (KF51, KF41), 1 std nehezdd (2A7HU, KF41) es masik ket vegyes felvagott dd, kozepes es egy rapid response. Az mar legalabb egy atlagos bekeidos ~130 koruli hk mennyiseget kiadna.

Oké csak nem hiszem el neki.
Majd jönne szépen az akadàlyközlés meg a költségtúllépés (been there done that)

 

[Nemerson]

Oké csak nem hiszem el neki.
Majd jönne szépen az akadàlyközlés meg a költségtúllépés (been there done that)

Kötbért rájuk verni, ha túllépik a költségeket, a Pappergert meg deresre húzni, oszt 25-öt verni a valagára.

 

[krisss]

De én továbbra sem tudom hogy egy teljesen új modernebb gép amiben minden gecirenagyondigitálos meg szuperlöveg meg faszom hogy tud olcsóbb lenni.

 

[kamm]

De én továbbra sem tudom hogy egy teljesen új modernebb gép amiben minden gecirenagyondigitálos meg szuperlöveg meg faszom hogy tud olcsóbb lenni.

POnt a digitalis miatt lehet, a loveg a sajatjuk, es persze a KF51 sajat hullra (=KF41 track stb) epitve ertette, nem a Leoera tett demora.

 

[Hummen23]

Hat, pedig most egeszen neven nevezte a gyereket. Olcsobb legyen, mint a 2A7, de nem annyira, mint a K2; kozelebb lesz a 2A7-hez kozottuk.
Igy viszont mar egyaltalan nem ostobasag, mert ~90 KF51 megallna €1.4B korul (kb ugyanannyi most dollarban is.) Azzal mar lehetne 1 kifejezetten pancelos dd (KF51, KF41), 1 std nehezdd (2A7HU, KF41) es masik ket vegyes felvagott dd, kozepes es egy rapid response. Az mar legalabb egy atlagos bekeidos ~130 koruli hk mennyiseget kiadna.

Igazad van. Ami talán a pénznél is fontosabb, hogy saját kapacitásunk lenne harckocsi gyártásra. A világon ezt nem sokan mondhatják el magukról, és hatalmas stratégiai előnyt jelenthet.
Ha tovább piszkálják Koszovót és Tajvant, akkor az eddigi fegyverkezés semmi lesz ahhoz képest, ami ezután jön.
És akkor vagy lesz kapacitásunk, vagy kuncsoroghatunk érte, hogy vegyenek fel a sok sok éves várólisták végére.

 

[Spartan.asfv]

Kötbért rájuk verni, ha túllépik a költségeket, a Pappergert meg deresre húzni, oszt 25-öt verni a valagára.

Főispán úr parancsára közhirré is tétetik?

 

[Nemerson]

Főispán úr parancsára közhirré is tétetik?

Ki lösz dobóva a főtéren.

 

[hunemperor]

Épp számolgatom, hogy 200 db kellene, a megélkezésig meg kitaltanának a Leo-k meg a Melkavák.