Rheinmetall Lynx

  • Ha nem vagy kibékülve az alapértelmezettnek beállított sötét sablonnal, akkor a korábbi ígéretnek megfelelően bármikor átválthatsz a korábbi világos színekkel dolgozó kinézetre.

    Ehhez görgess a lap aljára és a baloldalon keresd a HTKA Dark feliratú gombot. Kattints rá, majd a megnyíló ablakban válaszd a HTKA Light lehetőséget. Választásod a böngésződ elmenti cookie-ba, így amikor legközelebb érkezel ezt a műveletsort nem kell megismételned.
  • Az elmúlt időszak tapasztalatai alapján házirendet kapott a topic.

    Ezen témában - a fórumon rendhagyó módon - az oldal üzemeltetője saját álláspontja, meggyőződése alapján nem enged bizonyos véleményeket, mivel meglátása szerint az káros a járványhelyzet enyhítését célzó törekvésekre.

    Kérünk, hogy a vírus veszélyességét kétségbe vonó, oltásellenes véleményed más platformon fejtsd ki. Nálunk ennek nincs helye. Az ilyen hozzászólásokért 1 alkalommal figyelmeztetés jár, majd folytatása esetén a témáról letiltás. Arra is kérünk, hogy a fórum más témáiba ne vigyétek át, mert azért viszont már a fórum egészéről letiltás járhat hosszabb-rövidebb időre.

  • Az elmúlt időszak tapasztalatai alapján frissített házirendet kapott a topic.

    --- VÁLTOZÁS A MODERÁLÁSBAN ---

    A források, hírek preferáltak. Azoknak, akik veszik a fáradságot és összegyűjtik ezeket a főként harcokkal, a háború jelenlegi állásával és haditechnika szempontjából érdekes híreket, (mindegy milyen oldali) forrásokkal alátámasztják és bonuszként legalább a címet egy google fordítóba berakják, azoknak ismételten köszönjük az áldozatos munkáját és további kitartást kívánunk nekik!

    Ami nem a topik témájába vág vagy akár csak erősebb hangnemben is kerül megfogalmazásra, az valamilyen formában szankcionálva lesz

    Minden olyan hozzászólásért ami nem hír, vagy szorosan a konfliktushoz kapcsolódó vélemény / elemzés azért instant 3 nap topic letiltás jár. Aki pedig ezzel trükközne és folytatná másik topicban annak 2 hónap fórum ban a jussa.

    Az új szabályzat teljes szövege itt olvasható el.

L.O.B

Well-Known Member
2020. július 8.
2 281
8 141
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lesz egy új Görög teszt

According to exclusive information of DefenceReview.gr, the top TOMA KF-41 Lynx will be in our country next fall in order to conduct shootings and exercises with live fire. It is the second time that the leading German TOMA will be on Greek soil.
 

SilvioD

Well-Known Member
2018. december 23.
27 345
96 730
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lesz egy új Görög teszt
Tavaly elmaradtak a lövész tesztek. Tavaly rohadt nagy szárazság volt a görögöknél és tűzveszély miatt nem lehetett végrehajtani.
 
K

kamm

Guest
En ezt anno angolul olvastam, es hangosan felrohogtem. Az aussiek sosem voltak az eszukrol hiresek, inkabb ellenkezoleg, no meg koztudomasuan a 'lapdog' kategoriaba soroljuk oket itt Amerikaban, de azt azert tenyleg sosem hittem volna, hogy ilyen komolyan behuzzak ill. lehuzzak oket majd, raadasul pont Dem elnok alatt...
Figyeld meg majd, mindent, amibol letezik amerikai alternativa, le fognak cserelni a kovetkezo 10 evben. Total palira vesszuk oket, felfujjuk az onerzetuk, igy lesznek "komoly partnerek", mikozben iszonyat osszeget fognak elkolteni amerikai rendszerekre es azok fenntartasara. :cool:
 

krisss

Well-Known Member
2014. február 21.
30 149
130 383
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The trials and tribulations of the Australian IFV acquisition program​

https://defence24.pl/strona-autora/damian-ratka

tAMimX97RDHnGU8wBEgJ00EA43qSGCMxp03AeKUK.8ins.jpg

AS21 and
KF41 Australia DoD
For some time there has been information about the growing problems associated with the Land 400 Phase 3 program conducted by the Australian Army. The initiative concerns the purchase of new infantry fighting vehicles and specialized vehicles on the same chassis. The mechanized infantry may be affected by a serious reduction in the order for new vehicles.


Recall that under the Land 400 Phase 3 program, it was planned to purchase 450 infantry fighting vehicles and specialized versions. The latter include a command vehicle, a medical evacuation vehicle, an artillery reconnaissance vehicle, a sapper vehicle and a self-propelled mortar. Currently, the purchase is to be reduced to around 129 machines, which is quite a significant reduction. What might these decisions be about?

1. Structures​

The Australian Army is constantly changing in the course of ongoing technical modernization. It is therefore indicated that the announced reductions in the order may correspond to the future structure of the land forces, which will have only one armored brigade. This may be indicated by the number of M1A2SEPv3 tanks ordered in the USA, which is 75 copies. These vehicles are to be supported by 29 M1150 sapper tanks, 18 M1074 assault bridges and 19 M88A2 recovery vehicles.



One of the reports on the modernization of the Australian land forces would suggest such a solution, where it is clearly stated that the land forces should have a single armored brigade. Interestingly, this brigade is to have only one battalion of mechanized infantry on infantry fighting vehicles. It is also indicated that due to the age of the machines and maintenance costs, all M113 armored personnel carriers and their specialized versions will most likely be withdrawn.
They will be replaced by wheeled vehicles, both new and already in operation, such as Hawkei, Bushmaster and Boxer, along with specialist variants. The Boxer is mainly intended to replace the currently operated ASLAV vehicles. This is the Australian variant of the LAV-25 vehicle, which is still used by the USMC, although the time of its replacement is also imminently approaching in the USA. This means that tracked vehicles would only be used as part of an armored brigade. The rest of the land forces would receive wheeled vehicles.


The situation is similar in the case of the 155 mm self-propelled artillery, which is being developed under the Land 8116 Phase 1 and Phase 2 programmes. As part of the first phase, the purchase of thirty 155 mm AS9 Huntsman self-propelled howitzers and 15 AS10 artillery ammunition carriers is planned. The plans assumed the purchase of a larger number as part of the second phase of the program, but it is postulated to cancel it due to the firing range of the howitzers, which is considered too small in relation to the missile systems.
Reductions in the purchase of heavy equipment are also to be dictated by a limited budget, the need to purchase long-range anti-ship missiles, as well as the development of rocket artillery through the purchase of M142 HIMARS multiple rocket artillery systems. In addition, the Australian Army must also find funds to purchase AH-64E attack helicopters to replace the ARH Tigers, and UH-60M multi-role helicopters, as well as other equipment, including reconnaissance and communications equipment.

2. Technical Problems​


In addition to issues related to the budget and future structures, the Land 400 Phase 3 program faces other problems, perhaps even more important from the point of view of its success or failure. Both vehicles participating in the Australian tender, i.e. the German KF41 Lynx, offered by Rheinmetall, and the Korean AS21 Redback, proposed by Hanwha, suffered from technical problems.

Starting with the KF41 Lynx, according to reports in the Australian press, this vehicle is said to have problems with excessive vibration and noise while driving. This is interesting because Ajax, developed for Great Britain, was to suffer from a similar affliction, at least until recently. In the case of the British combat vehicle, it was not made public, which was the source of the noise so loud that it was harmful to the health of the soldiers inside the vehicle.

Some indication is given by Australian sources in the context of Lynx. Namely, the source of problems are supposed to be... the tracks used. These are classic tracks with metal links, double-pin, with replaceable rubber pads. The project called TR40 was developed by the British company Cook Defense Systems. From the layman's perspective, the problem may seem prosaic, but when designing tracks for combat vehicles, noise and vibrations are also currently taken into account.


However, interestingly, exactly the same model of tracks, from the same manufacturer, was used in the British Ajax wagon, in which the tracks may be the main cause of the problems encountered (and for quite a long time could not be dealt with) by the British. Previously, faulty welded hulls, torsion bar-based suspension, and a powertrain that may have been incorrectly installed in the car were cited as likely causes of the problems.

In addition to the tracks, the KF41 Lynx was also to suffer from a greater number of mechanical failures, mainly related to the Liebherr drive unit, which was to be replaced at least several times during the tests due to failures. Moreover, it also turned out that the Lance turret system is to suffer from various technical shortcomings, although it was not specified what the problem is.

As for the AS21 Redback, the hull looks better, because the car does not fall into vibrations and excessive noise. This is due to the use of hydropneumatic suspension and composite rubber tracks with a metal insert, which were developed by the Canadian company Soucy Defense. However, this solution also has some problems. It is not known what they are related to, although it can be assumed that it is about durability and resistance to mechanical damage.

The most serious complaint against the Redback relates to the turret system used, i.e. the EOS T-2000, which is a development of the MT30 from the Israeli company Elbit. The issue of insufficient ventilation and removal of powder gases during firing from the 30 mm Mk 44S automatic cannon was raised. This can lead to the accumulation of harmful substances inside the vehicle in unacceptable concentrations, exposing the soldiers on board to health damage.


Moreover, both vehicles are said to have a problem with the integration of the Iron Fist active defense system, which is considered one of the most important components that new combat vehicles should be equipped with. All due to the prevalence of modern infantry anti-tank means, including hand-held grenade launchers and anti-tank guided missiles.

Summary​


Various Australian sources, including the daily The Australian, indicate that the military prefers the Korean AS21 Redback as an overall more refined vehicle with fewer technical problems, which simply performed better in tests. On the other hand, sources close to Rheinmetall indicate that it was the KF41 Lynx that fared better in comparison. There is also a possible discrepancy of opinion between the military and politicians.
As mentioned above, the military is to prefer the Korean design, while the politicians prefer the German product. This is due to the fact that the KF41 Lynx would be produced at the MILVEHCOE ("Military Vehicle Center of Excellence") plant in Ipswich, Queensland, already existing in Australia, where Boxer vehicles for the Australian army are also produced. Meanwhile, the AS21 Redback, which uses many of the same or similar components to the K9 self-propelled gun-howitzer, is to be produced in the new AS9 Huntsman plants.


The new facility, from which the Australian AS9 Huntsman, AS10 and potentially AS21 Redback will depart, is being built in Geelong, Victoria and is called H-ACE (Hanwha Armored Vehicle Center of Excellence). Construction began in February 2022 and is expected to take approximately 2 years. It is possible that politicians opt for the production of a German infantry fighting vehicle in an already existing factory, rather than waiting for the completion of the construction of plants that will produce a vehicle preferred by the military in the future.
Another possible point of contention may be specialized versions. So far, the AS21 Redback has only been presented in the basic variant, i.e. an infantry fighting vehicle. Meanwhile, several specialized versions of the KF41 Lynx have already been shown. It is also this factor that may result in the preferences of politicians who see a ready system, and not just one of many elements of the puzzle.



Of course, we will see over time which option will prove to be the winning one, as it may take another nine months to make a decision due to changes in program financing related to order reductions, as well as adjustments to the offers that producers have to prepare. Moreover, the program could fail, as bidders may refuse to continue participating in the Australian Ministry of Defense initiative if they believe that the required changes will involve financial losses.
 

Aladeen

Well-Known Member
2021. július 17.
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Starting with the KF41 Lynx, according to reports in the Australian press, this vehicle is said to have problems with excessive vibration and noise while driving. This is interesting because Ajax, developed for Great Britain, was to suffer from a similar affliction, at least until recently. In the case of the British combat vehicle, it was not made public, which was the source of the noise so loud that it was harmful to the health of the soldiers inside the vehicle.

Some indication is given by Australian sources in the context of Lynx. Namely, the source of problems are supposed to be... the tracks used. These are classic tracks with metal links, double-pin, with replaceable rubber pads. The project called TR40 was developed by the British company Cook Defense Systems. From the layman's perspective, the problem may seem prosaic, but when designing tracks for combat vehicles, noise and vibrations are also currently taken into account.

In addition to the tracks, the KF41 Lynx was also to suffer from a greater number of mechanical failures, mainly related to the Liebherr drive unit, which was to be replaced at least several times during the tests due to failures. Moreover, it also turned out that the Lance turret system is to suffer from various technical shortcomings, although it was not specified what the problem is.
A mi gépeinken is tapasztalni vibrációt vagy ezt már megoldották?
A motor más lett ha jól tudom, mint amivel erdetileg tervezték - remélhetőleg azzal jobban szuperál a mi Lynxünk...
 
K

kamm

Guest
A mi gépeinken is tapasztalni vibrációt vagy ezt már megoldották?

Mitol lett teny hirtelen? Mert valami (eleg rosszul megirt) oldal "according to the Austrialian press" hivatkozassal a semmire hivatkozva sejtet valamit?
Az hagyjan, de osszevissza kombinal. hogy ez a track miatt van, es az Ajazon is ez a track van es ugye...

A motor más lett ha jól tudom, mint amivel erdetileg tervezték - remélhetőleg azzal jobban szuperál a mi Lynxünk...
Meg aztan ki tudja, hogyan vezettek stb. Ausztralia kb mint Amerika, automata valtok es zero vezetoi keszseg.
 

Negan

Well-Known Member
2019. november 30.
19 188
33 409
113
A motor más lett ha jól tudom, mint amivel erdetileg tervezték - remélhetőleg azzal jobban szuperál a mi Lynxünk...
Egy munkagép motor van benne.Ha nem hangolták át,akkor az nem felel meg egy harcjárműnek,mert mások a működési követelmények.De szerintem ez annyira evidens,hogy ha ez elmaradt,akkor hihetetlenül balfékek voltak.
 

Aladeen

Well-Known Member
2021. július 17.
21 637
42 057
113
Egy munkagép motor van benne.Ha nem hangolták át,akkor az nem felel meg egy harcjárműnek,mert mások a működési követelmények.De szerintem ez annyira evidens,hogy ha ez elmaradt,akkor hihetetlenül balfékek voltak.
@krisss azt írta egyszer, hogy motorikusan vagyis mozgás szempontból jó a gép. Az ausztál teszt azért 2 éve volt lassan már és egy prototípussal teszteltek: ha voltak is gondok, az messze nem biztos hogy még mindig fennállnak. Remélem...
 

Negan

Well-Known Member
2019. november 30.
19 188
33 409
113
@krisss azt írta egyszer, hogy motorikusan vagyis mozgás szempontból jó a gép. Az ausztál teszt azért 2 éve volt lassan már és egy prototípussal teszteltek: ha voltak is gondok, az messze nem biztos hogy még mindig fennállnak. Remélem...
Attol még lehet nagyon jó mozgású egy gép,hogy vidráció van.Extrém nagy vibráció kell ahoz,hogy az már akadályozza a mozgékonyságot.Viszont lehet olyan vibráció,ami a mozgékonyságot ugyan nem zavarja,de az optikák működését már igen.Vagy zavarja,fárasztja a legénységet.Aztán lehet olyan is,hogy normál terhelésnél nincs probléma,de csúcsterhelésnél meg ki akar esni a motor a helyéről (kamionmotorok példul tipikusan ilyenek,és ebből a szempontbol a V8/12 motorok jobbak,mint a S6ok,kiegyensúlyozottabb a járásuk csúcsterhelésen is,általában).Harchelyzetben meg igencsak sanszos,hogy szükség lesz a csúcsterhelésre.Egy rohamot nem kényelmes utazósebességen csinálnak,példul-
 
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